Author Topic: Winter mods: whatcha got?  (Read 6950 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BrianN

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #75 on: April 12, 2022, 08:00:28 PM »
Yes. 658-115 lbs =543.

Online fabr

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 92639
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #76 on: April 12, 2022, 08:05:47 PM »
I'm in the middle of some shit at the moment. Will reply more tomorrow.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Online fabr

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 92639
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #77 on: April 12, 2022, 08:33:35 PM »
Quickly ,using your numbers that I haven't checked,543#/2.125" travel to ride height will make the needed spring rate 255#. Go to a dual rate calculator such as https://f-o-a.com/foa-suspension-calculator/  ,scroll down to where it says calculate dual spring rate and in the field asking for primary spring rate input 255 and hit recalculate. The results will be the needed main and tender spring rates needed to get the dual spring rate desired.  That is a good starting point. bear in mind that the main spring rate will become fully active when the crossover ring is active.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Online fabr

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 92639
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #78 on: April 12, 2022, 08:46:43 PM »
Personally,i would like to see you lower your ride height to where there was maybe 4" in shock to make for a lot better ride and much more reasonable spring rates. That would lower the spring rate to 135#/"
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline BrianN

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #79 on: April 12, 2022, 09:08:50 PM »
I agree completely. My thinking on that high of a ride height is the fact that my car will be able to hit the ground. And the more compression distance I had, the easier it would be to limit that. Does that make sense?

Online fabr

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 92639
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #80 on: April 13, 2022, 06:40:55 AM »
It would seem to make sense but you will find that that line of thought will only make for a very harsh ride. Remember that it is the main spring(and shock valving) that will keep car from bottoming out after it hits the crossover.  It's a balancing act that ,IMO,most people make a mistake by going too stiff on the springing. When that is done it makes it difficult or even impossible to get the valving right.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline BrianN

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #81 on: April 13, 2022, 09:24:18 AM »
If I understand you correctly, you are figuring spring rate by simply dividing unsprung weight by amount of shock shaft in the body, at ride height. What I would consider "sag". If so, why is the crawlpedia formula so different? Because my number was way higher.

Offline budlight69

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 490
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #82 on: April 13, 2022, 09:58:36 AM »
I always used (R1xR2)/(R1+R2) to figure combined spring rate, until it hits the crossover

Offline BrianN

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #83 on: April 13, 2022, 11:09:52 AM »
What is R1 and R2? I plug my current springs, which are 125 and 175, into the equation and get 73. I don't understand what that number means.

Offline dsrace

  • VIP
  • *
  • Posts: 7890
  • my one true weakness
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #84 on: April 13, 2022, 04:26:20 PM »
Got myself confused. I can hear Glenn telling me to put the crack pipe down for a while! I have used a few spring rate calculators and came up with answers of 464 and 474 lb/in spring rate needed for my new suspension. If these are even close, how do I convert this number into a 16" long and 18" long spring combination? (That is what I currently have) They are 2.5" springs. I am attaching pics of my numbers, just in case someone can help me. The scale weight is the worst (most weight) scenario.
NOTE: In my calculations, I considered my 16" shock to be a 10.75" shock, because I am not using the full stroke. Is this necessary?






am i reading that correctly.....total weight of 1943lbs??  ;D ;D ;D ;D you just had to be lighter then my tank huh!  :m it's not a competion  :m17 lbs lighter then mine  :m  so i can picture you sitting back ( see pic ) and going i beat his rail by 17 lbs  rofl

« Last Edit: April 13, 2022, 05:10:24 PM by dsrace »
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline budlight69

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 490
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #85 on: April 13, 2022, 04:50:05 PM »
What is R1 and R2? I plug my current springs, which are 125 and 175, into the equation and get 73. I don't understand what that number means.

R1 is the upper spring rate and R2 the lower spring.  With my car each rear corner weighs 750 with 2 passengers, but my spring rate showed that I needed 177#, so went to 300# over 500# springs which is 187# spring rate.  It seems close, still need more valving changes. 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2022, 04:54:35 PM by budlight69 »

Offline BrianN

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #86 on: April 13, 2022, 05:14:51 PM »
The 1943 is me, 8 gallons of gas, and 144 lbs in the passenger seat. The car and 3 gallons of gas is 1640. This trans and mod added a little over 200 lbs.
Accutune just figured my spring rates and suggested 16"X 300lb  and 16" X 400lb springs. I am afraid that I am confusing them with my information, though. Mainly amount of shaft that is showing at ride height. I am lost, so I will just start buying springs and hope for the best. I thought I could just input information into the online formulas and come up with spring weights and lengths, but evidently I am doing it wrong! 

Offline BrianN

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #87 on: April 13, 2022, 05:21:40 PM »
DS, the rest of your post just came through. That is hilarious! Actually, I thought my car was an overweight pig. I still prefer light, small, simple, low hp, and nimble. That way I have to drive like a madman where someone in a big car has his arm rested on the door and is just sightseeing.

Offline dsrace

  • VIP
  • *
  • Posts: 7890
  • my one true weakness
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #88 on: April 13, 2022, 05:34:37 PM »
mine is 1960 lbs wet with no one in it  rofl

so thats an interesting spring rate calculator. i had to read the instructions on d1 2 3 4 5 and 6. so thy are basically shock to wheel ratio or leverage.

so if i used this calculator correctly..... you are using a 16' stroke shock, but only 10.75" out of the 16" to achieve 19" of wheel travel? if that i correct and you gave up 5" of ground clearance ( from 20" to 15") that's 25% in droop and the shock leaning in/forward at 38*? with d1 with the a arm pivot at the frame to the shock head pivot at the carrier ( 23.25") and d2 being a arm pivot at frame to pivot at bearing carrier ( 20.75") and 670 lbs on the wheel? i rounded up on the dead weight on the wheel to be safe. if those #'s are correct then it recommends 377 over 565 lb springs. that seems a bit extreme to me but that is a starting point.

 





Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline dsrace

  • VIP
  • *
  • Posts: 7890
  • my one true weakness
Re: Winter mods: whatcha got?
« Reply #89 on: April 13, 2022, 05:48:57 PM »
i had 20% in droop where it looks like your 25% in droop so i recalculated and it now says 301 over 453. that still seems a bit high to me but what do i know  ;D ;D
 don't take this the wrong way but i am surprised your current 125 primary over your current 175 secondary worked for you. those are light springs imo and only imo as i am no expert. 

if were myself, i would go say 200/400 and adjust so you stay a min of 1" away from coil bind on secondary. well both really but only using 10.75" out of 16" you really shouldn't be in that area on primary. not sure you can adjust enough to hit coil bind on the secondary either but not there to see in person.  normally i shoot for a 1.5:1 ratio on shock/wheel travel. i have played in the 2:1 ratio as well and i see nothing wrong with it. in  fact the heavy sxs's play in the 2:1 ratio with tender springs, primary and secondary but they moved to the 3.0 bodies. i thought i saw speed utv went to 4.0 shock bodies and is playing in the 2.1 or 2.2:1 ratio but don't quote me on that. i say this as it looks like calculating a 16" stroke shock you are .84:1 but calculating an actual 10.75" of shock travel you are a .56:1 ratio.

so i say 200/400 lb springs so your not over sprung and you will want to know your valving. at those ratios you won't need extreme valving imo. i would think you'll want faster comp and slower rebound ( so you don't po go stick ) but i will have to think on that one. when i say faster i mean say 45 or 50 on comp and say slower i mean  80 to 90 or even possibly 2-1 on rebound with the s/w ratio. maybe i'm backwards...fabr thoughts on valving?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2022, 05:53:03 PM by dsrace »
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience